Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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Public talk given by Raymond Victor Franz, 1976
by Titus inlife everlasting in god's approaching new order.
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What I don't get is how JWs can't see how their ideas paint God to be a terrorist
by gubberningbody inme - "whatcha doin?".
jw - "preaching to "save lives"?".
me - "who's gonna do the killing?".
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Too true. That's why many individual JWs come up with ideas that directly contradict WTS dogma on this matter. I've had many JWs deny that God will kill billions of Chinese/Muslims/etc who've never seen a Bible, much less a WT. These JWs claim that God will "read their hearts." Problem is that this teaching is not found in WTS publications and in fact it contradicts clear WTS doctrine, such as the "mark for survival" of Ezekiel 9.
But here's the point. If (1) the WTS teaches that God will kill billions of people who've never heard "the message" (which it does), but (2) God really isn't going to do any such thing--rather he's going to "read hearts" as these JWs claim--then isn't the WTS blaspheming God by making him out to be a mass-murderer? When I was an active JW, I used to get indignant at Christendom for blaspheming God by saying he burns people in hellfire. Funny that JWs don't apply the same standard to their own religion that blasphemes God by claiming that he's going to kill billions of innocent/ignorant people imminently.
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JWs Worship of GB vs exJWs worship of Ray Franz
by Broken Promises inas jws, we would have seen the adolation the governing body received.
even as far away as australia, we thought and spoke of them with reverence.
after all, they were figuratively at gods right hand, with the prospect of one day being in heaven with him.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Thanks for the reminder, Blondie. That's something that many JWs and ex-JWs don't realize--namely that after Ray was kicked out of Bethel, he attended a congregation as a regular JW for a year and a half.
Also, he was not DF'd for "apostacy." Rather, he was DF'd for eating dinner with his DA'd boss/landlord. And it's interesting that when the boss/landlord DA'd himself, JWs were not forbidden from associating with DA'd people. Then, in September 1981 the WT came out with "new light" that DA'd people had to be treated like DF'd people. The circuit overseer and some elders (almost certainly at the Society's direction) used that as a way to "get" Ray.
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Update on Ray, I think this needs a new thread
by coffee_black inupdating,.
it is confirmed that cynthia will be signing the papers this morning to remove ray from life support.
if anyone has posted their address on the internet, it is requested that you remove it for the safety of cynthia and those who are with her.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
This is heartbreaking. As one who had the privilege of corresponding with and meeting Ray, I can say he was one of the kindest and most humble men I have come across. He was an excellent listener and a thoughtful speaker.
While I'm saddened that he chose not to have a memorial service, it is in line with his personality. He was not interested in notoriety for himself. Also, he may have been concerned that his memorial could have become a spectacle or a platform for some to make statements regarding the WT Society. Ray would not have wanted that. He merely wanted to go in peace.
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Change in distribution of Kool-aid issue of WT, get them like your KMs from your Service Groups Overseer
by cattails innot only is there a change in the way the magazines for field service are distributed to publishers.. there's news of a change in distribution of the study issue of the wt.
from now on a publisher will.
get them like they get their kms, that is by having their service groups overseer hand deliver them.. another way to exercise control for control's sake and make the sgos busier and feeling more and.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Jim, I think that's going to happen in the near future. I predict they'll "encourage" JWs--especially those in western countries--to download and print the study WTs.
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30 minute C.O. talk against the phrase "Take It Easy"
by lepermessiah inmy buddy and i were recalling some of the worst talks we ever heard.. one classic we remembered was one by a new c.o., who gave this talk on his first visit.. the guy was an arrogant tool, and he thought he was the voice of god.. we couldnt remember the title, but all we remember was a 30 minute rant against the phrase "take it easy".
we thought it was supposed to be talk encouraging pioneering, but it quickly took a turn for the worse....... "we often hear worldly people use the phrase "take it easy" - as christians, we do not take it easy!".
"we should never hear the phrase "take it easy" here at the kingdom hall".
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I guess that C.O. is not an Eagles fan.
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Help Please - Wife Misses Friends, Wants to return to KH
by Mad Sweeney inthe topic says it all.
i am frustrated and dumbfounded.
i understand that she misses the social activity with her "friends" but we have been "very" busy socially the last several months with new friends and she's been having a great time.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I agree that opposing her return to some meetings would be counter-productive. That being said, you may want to lay the groundwork with her for what she should expect.
We all know that going to a couple meetings per month is not enough "activity" to be viewed as "good association" in the congregation. I don't know your wife's friends, but if they're like most JWs, they will do things like invite her out in service in order to help "re-activate" her. You may want to prepare her for this.
If she declines too many such invitations, she will likely realize that a couple of meetings per month won't be enough to keep her friends. Also, she may be put in situations where she feels forced to explain why she doesn't want to go out in service, or why she can't make it to the Thursday night meeting, etc. If she wants to avoid getting DF'd, she'll need to be careful with her answers.
Also, she'll want to think long-term. Does she want to be faking her way through a few meetings 5 years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
A few thoughts in no particular order:
- "major" blood fractions (white cells, red cells, etc.) now a conscience matter, but "whole blood" still off limits
- a handful of new GB members--including more minorities (as besty mentioned, probably a Latino)
- no more public WT, just the members-only WT and the Awake for the public
- no more "congregation bible study" (I know it's now on the same night as the TMS/service mtg; I think they may just drop it)
- increased emphasis on placing tracts on initial calls, rather than books/brochures
- no more reporting of literature placements--just hours, RVs, studies (this would dovetail with the de-emphasis on placing books/brochures)
- post entire issues of JW-only WTs online (rather than just the study articles); encourage JWs (esp. in western lands) to download and print PDFs instead of ordering paper copies
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The Reason Why the Society Changed the Meaning of "Generation"...again
by Olin Moyles Ghost inthis has been discussed...and discussed...and discussed some more on this board.
but i thought i'd go ahead and put down my thoughts on why the wts changed the meaning of "generation" again in 2010, after changing it in 2008. in short, i think the 2008 "new light" caused many jws to doubt that the end is imminent, so the wts tweaked the meaning of "generation" to re-kindle the zeal in the flock.
a bit more explanation follows below.. for the sake of completeness, here is a list of the society's various meanings of "generation" over the last few decades:.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
OTWO and others: The idea that 2008 was part of a gradual shift to the 2010 doctrine is another reasonable explanation. Personally, I view the GB as being reactionary as opposed to having some kind of master plan for future doctrinal refinements. Perhaps 2010 is the result of a hybrid of our two theories...something like this:
- In 2007 or earlier, some GB members come up with the "overlapping anointed" generation doctrine and present it to the body.
- The proponents of the overlapping generation can't get a 2/3 majority to agree to the generational overlap, but the body compromises and agrees to change the generation to the anointed.
- After the 2008 article comes out, the GB hears that the friends are interpreting it to mean that The End isn't as close as they thought.
- The GB doesn't like this, so they huddle up and the "overlapping anointed" proponents convince some of the other GB to support their position on the grounds that it would mitigate the decreased sense of urgency among the JWs.
- Result: 2010 "overlapping anointed" doctrine.
Leo: I agree that the 1995 change would/should have had the same effect. That's why I expressed my surprise at the reaction (among JWs and on this board) to the 2008 change as follows:
In a way, I was surprised about the hoopla that surrounded it. As far as I'm concerned, there's no practical difference between the 2008 and 1995 doctrines--in both cases, 1914 is irrelevant and there's no limit to the length of the Last Days. To this day, I'm not sure why the 2008 generation change had this effect--I recall seeing lots of discussion on JWD around that time, and for the life of me, I never understood how the 2008 new light made one iota of difference in the date for The End.
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Did You Know Any Jehovah's Witnesses That "Did" Drugs?
by minimus inmy teenage daughter suggested to me that certain kids in well connected families were regular pot smokers.
it was always hush hush because of their connections but evidently it was common knowledge within the "in" crowd.. i knew some adults that were on prescription pills but they had legitimate excuses for being "happy".
of course, most jws i know of, medicate themselves on booze..
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Olin Moyles Ghost
I knew JWs who did illegal drugs; and I know JWs who do illegal drugs.